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Dead in Battle

ChrisW
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:05 pm
Location: Whatlington, East Sussex

Dead in Battle

Postby ChrisW » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:42 pm

The XJR engine cut out driving through Battle (East Sussex) High street. Just died, no apparent reason. The engine wouldnt restart and eventually the battery went flat and I had to call out a recovery vehicle.

The recovery guy got me home and did a few checks. With their powerpack the car started but ran really lumpy and wouldnt respond to the throttle.
like this:

https://youtu.be/_Q8j0v_lNA4

There is a spark from HT lead to engine block when you turn it over on the starter.

So far Ive changed the distributor cap, crank position sensor, ECU, checked the rotor arm, checked fuel pressure - seems to be plenty when you crack the joint to the fuel rail, taken out the plugs - all black, cleaned them up and replaced them. Checked the injector connectors for a switching voltage on turnover, seems ok. Changed the coolant temp sensor .

Am now running out of ideas.
http://www.springballchange.co.uk
'93 XJR
'93 XJ12
'73 MGB Roadster
97 Range Rover Autobiography

pimgmx
Posts: 3348
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:07 pm
Location: South East of the Netherlands

Re: Dead in Battle

Postby pimgmx » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:50 pm

Fuel pump on its way out would be my first guess, but not too likely given your tests? :?

Back to the electronics department then: have you checked coil voltage and/or a MAF swap?

Problem with an XJR is that an ECU swap isn't that easy...
(mumbles something about unicorns and rocking horses)

Good luck hunting that !@#$% Gremlin!

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NMV 1E
Snr Member
Posts: 946
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:26 pm
Location: Lydiate, Merseyside.

Re: Dead in Battle

Postby NMV 1E » Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:07 pm

Off the "top" of my head, that sounds like a fuel pump (delivery) pressure issue ... (watched the youtube clip) mine "sounded" exactly the same, after I'd changed the fuel tank and before enough pressure had "built up"... Have you tried spraying something like "easy start" into the air intake ? Try closing down (blocking) the return pipe on the fuel rail (Mole grips and a rag, to protect the pipe). At the end of the day and as we know, its all suck squeeze bang blow. Something wrong with the "bang".
Life begins at Forty !... I was born with nothing, I seem to have most of it left.


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XJ40Ian
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 12:24 am
Location: Blyth, Northumberland

Re: Dead in Battle

Postby XJ40Ian » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:34 pm

Hello, Hope you don't mind putting my pupence worth in, based on what you have said and the black plugs the symptoms sound exactly like my V8 Discovery I bought as a non runner, when I eventually got it going it sounded like your car, I changed the MAF and the stepper motor and bought myself an ECU mate, After a while the ECU recognised the new parts and I was able to tune the stepper with the ECU mate - it now runs like a swiss watch.
I used a pattern Stepper and pattern MAF sensor off flea bay cost £85
I would suggest 'borrowing' a good stepper motor and a MAF.
hope your car has these parts? if not ill look foolish :oops:

Ian

naki_k
Super Moderator
Posts: 28669
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:25 pm
Location: Kirton, nr Boston, Lincolnshire

Re: Dead in Battle

Postby naki_k » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:50 pm

Anything on the VCM?
Do you get a CEL?

I take it there's enough fuel in there? And the gauge can be trusted?

Any possiblitiy there could be water in the fuel? Check filler gator to see if the drain is blocked?
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naki_k
Super Moderator
Posts: 28669
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:25 pm
Location: Kirton, nr Boston, Lincolnshire

Re: Dead in Battle

Postby naki_k » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:56 pm

Can you hear the injectors firing?


So many possibilities :?

Compression check?

Blocked fuel filter?

Failing fuel pump? Crack the rail and see if fuel squirts out under pressure, or just dribbled out?
88 3.6 XJ6 PDH/CEM
90 Range Rover Vogue SE 3.9 V8 LPG
91 4.0 XJ6 Manual
92 4.0 XJR Manual
92 4.0 XJR
93 3.2s - 4.0 Manual conv
93 4.0 Sovereign
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Breaking 40/ 300

abercanadian
Posts: 1348
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:50 am
Location: Vancouver Island

Re: Dead in Battle

Postby abercanadian » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:28 pm

Fuel pump issue IMHO.

Try whacking the tank with a bat (cricket or baseball :P ) and see if the car runs any better ...if it does, you're going to have to buy a pump ...If you do have to buy a new pump, buy the cheapest you can find, regardless of brand - all XJ40 pumps are made by WALBRO and regardless of branding, (OEM, Bosch etc) they are all the same and just reboxed WALBRO units, guaranteed.

Larry
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old del boy
Posts: 6916
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:29 am
Location: Kent

Re: Dead in Battle

Postby old del boy » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:02 am

Sorry to hear the xjr is having problems , from the way it died my first thought was the rotor arm shorting out , typically temporarily cured by adding grease to the shaft , the fact that the throttle didn't respond when you eventually got it started sounds familiar of course but could be either weak sparks or fuel starvation , i suppose the cps is also a possible culprit , how sure are you about the replacement you fitted ?

Have you tried key cycling to get the pressure up ? can you hear the pump running when you switch on ? the other thing that occurred to me was the common problem of the fuel pump protection module wiring burning through which happened to my car , this is easy enough to check .

As a previous poster has mentioned maybe trying something like easy start up the intake might prove it's a lack of fuel if it starts this way , were the plugs wet after that marathon starting attempt in the video :?

Derek..
'93 4.0L Daimler, solent blue,
'93 4.0L Daimler, Westminster,
'85 2600 Rover sd1 vdp oporto.

ChrisW
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:05 pm
Location: Whatlington, East Sussex

Re: Dead in Battle

Postby ChrisW » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:10 am

Thanks for the suggestions chaps.

The pump spins up normally when you turn on the ignition and stops after a second or two, presumably when the fuel line is at pressure. I cracked the fuel rail and a strong squirt of petrol came out.

I'm assuming the CPS is OK as I have a good spark.

No stepper motor and I think the MAF only has an affect once its running.

I am perplexed by the black spark plugs, maybe dramatic overfuelling stopping it from running? But why the sudden failure?

I doubt that there's water in the tank. I'm quite meticulous about keeping the drain tube clear. However there was a lot of rain that day...

I will try the eezi-start method, although thats tricky without an assistant !

At least the xj12 passed its mot.
http://www.springballchange.co.uk
'93 XJR
'93 XJ12
'73 MGB Roadster
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nlcrane
Spain Rep
Posts: 7587
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:36 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Dead in Battle

Postby nlcrane » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:30 am

abercanadian wrote:Fuel pump issue IMHO.

Try whacking the tank with a bat (cricket or baseball :P ) and see if the car runs any better ...if it does, you're going to have to buy a pump ...If you do have to buy a new pump, buy the cheapest you can find, regardless of brand - all XJ40 pumps are made by WALBRO and regardless of branding, (OEM, Bosch etc) they are all the same and just reboxed WALBRO units, guaranteed.

Larry


Larry really, ...........one does not "whack" :shock: with a cricket bat, one follows through (gracefully). Your years in the colonies are begining to take their toll. ;)
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